Interview with Edward Menten of Confessions of Crafty Witches

Today, I woke up to read the 27th message from Wicked Darlings asking things like, “What will [you] do about Confessions of Crafty Witches? Boycott the vendors or end your friendship with Kallan?”

You know me, my Wicked Luvs. I’m extremely vocal about this kind of stuff. But I’ve held my peace. So much so, that some of you had to remind me that talking (writing?) solves problems… I’ve been friends with Kallan Kennedy for many years. I know she stands for what is right. However, I have the feeling that this time things might have gotten a little out of hand.

I reached that conclusion yesterday. Then I had my first exchange with Edward Menten. After I was done, I understood that everyone else needed to know some of the things he shared with me. Here is the interview I conducted earlier today. Please read all the way to the end, including the closing; think about the information for a while, my Wicked Luvs. Then share your thoughts and make your decisions.

Interview with Edward Menten of Confessions of Crafty Witches

1. Magaly Guerrero: Prior to the appearance of A Plagiarist Revealed (this site was removed a day or so after this post was published), were you ever contacted by any individual or organization about the removal of unattributed content published on your personal blogs or on Confessions of Crafty Witches (CoCW)?

Edward Menten: No, Not on my Blogs. On CoCW there has been occasions where an artist has come to me about something I posted and I have Removed it upon request. An Example, during Midsummer I posted a Photo of a Green man mask and the Artist came to me I apologized to him and I shared his work and became friends. Another Artist I posted a funny Coffee cup and The Artist came to me not only Did I credit her and continued to Share her work with her permission and we become friends, that person is The Cheeky Witch.

2. Magaly Guerrero: What did you do after you were made aware of the intellectual property theft? And what have you been doing about it since? 

Edward Menten: I was upset, I was not aware I had done anything wrong, I was Sharing the pictures and Articles I found with others and giving others a place to enjoy them, but as soon as I realized this was an issue I have been busy Going through my Blogs Correcting some and Deleting other Blogs / Albums/ photos. I now use Reverse Google Search on photos and Trying to use Photos from Artist who give me full permission or come from free domain websites. And I am Crediting People as much as I can with hyperlinks to lead back to the original source.

3. Magaly Guerrero: The first item of CoCW’s support of the Artists and their commitment to integrity, says, “Take good photos of YOUR PRODUCTS or ITEMS and yes they must be YOUR photo not something found off google this way nobody gets sued or in trouble just take a photo of your item…” If you knew this, how is it that you didn’t practice it yourself?

Edward Menten: When I started years ago, I honestly Thought that everything on the net was public. I was coming from a place of “hey this is a cool picture or idea I wanna share it.” Never crossed my mind to give credit to where I found it. People share things all the time all over Facebook and all social media sites and nobody Credits anyone. I Thought it was the same thing.

I do understand what the American Witch (Kallan Kennedy, author of The Secret Life of the American Witch) is trying to do and I applaud her for her work, but I honestly did not know and I did not intend to steal another person’s work. I started thinking that it would be a few friends. I didn’t realize or ever dream of how big CoCW would become with the amount of Viewers and how important this issue would become when I came to Facebook after I was done with SodaHead. I wanted to get away from the hate and negativity and focus more on the Craft and Creativity and love and light.

I went to many Craft groups on FB and got kicked out because I was A MAN AND PAGAN, I think. As soon as they found out they kicked me out. So I created the page because I didn’t want to hate anymore and I just wanted a place to share ideas, share art, share crafts, share the seasons and the wheel of the year, show people about who we are and what we are. I never thought we (CoCW) would become so big so fast and postings would become an issue. We were busy having fun and meeting people and sharing. We could have been more careful. We are now.

4. Magaly Guerrero: I would like to address each of the pages at A Plagiarist Revealed. Let’s start with “Questionable Blogging Practices.” The team that created the site wants you to remove all the plagiarized content. Why haven’t you removed every single blog, the content on SodaHead to be specific?

Edward Menten: When I left SodaHead I deleted my account Thinking all my material would be deleted too. I even posted a Goodbye entry. I did not realize my material would still remain and that it would become the property of SodaHead. I can not go back and reactivate that account. I have emailed SodaHead asking them to delete the blogs and materials, but gotten no reply as of yet.

5. Magaly Guerrero: What about the content posted by A Plagiarist Revealed on “Will the Real Poet Please Stand Up?”

Edward Menten: I will be honest I was trying to impress Girls at the time and Today I know better and I no longer do this. I have Deleted all the Poems on the blogger site and including on my own Facebook Notes. And I am sorry I did this. I honestly did not know at the time. I thought everything on the net was for everyone’s use. I now realize my mistake and I am making sure I correct old posts and do it right in future postings.

I am a Self-Educated person I was not aware of plagiarism and laws and rules. I honestly did not know, but I am continuing to learn better.

6. Magaly Guerrero: Did you ever try to steal the identity of Charles Edward, as suggested in “Rock Star Identity”?

Edward Menten: This is the funny story about this situation I first picked the Avatar for an online game. There was a lot of Trash talking in those games. I made alot of enemies in the game because we all know I am opinionated. It was alot of people that googled my name and somehow the Algorithm linked my name to Charles Edwards photo and I have no clue how this happened.

I have never claimed to be the Rock star. I think I look a little bit like him with my horns LOL. I have never been contacted by the Rock star Charles Edwards and he does not appear to be upset, if he were to ever come to me I would apologize and work with him to somehow Fix this. I have even taken steps in this area and using my real life photo. I do enjoy the photo I use for Daw which was an online Character in a Game. And the nickname stuck.

To address the blog Rock Star Identity, I don’t know what they were reading. Even at the top of their own picture, it says “Here is my celebrity look alike collage.” They Edited stuff out, cut my words or something. I never claimed to be him. I never said I was him. It was a game on the forum SodaHead, asking who do you look like. I never said I was him. I said my Avatar photo was him and even properly said who he was and his band name. Here is the original SodaHead link: http://www.sodahead.com/fun/who-do-you-look-like/question-1564343/?page=2&postId=51802527#post_51802527 

Maybe the confusion is that his name is Charles Edward and I am Edward Menten. I admit I did say my middle name was Charles. Remember it was a Game Forum just Trash talking to look cool. I am a Guy I admit we all have done stuff like this. I have matured a bit since then.

7. Magaly Guerrero: I was browsing through CoCW and noticed you’ve been deleting content or adding attribution. Have you been contacting the artists? If so, what kind of results are you getting? 

Edward Menten:  Thank you. We have been trying very hard to correct our content and how we post. Yes, we now contact artists where need be to get permission and credit them if we are unable to contact them. We are working hard at this and we are getting positive results.

We even had Dorothy Morrison come to the page to point out that one of the spells we had was hers.  I apologized to her and I deleted the content right away. Then I contacted her and asked to use one of her healing spells. She was really sweet. Said she was happy we were fixing things so fast and were willing to make things better. That’s why we wanted to use her spell, with her permission, when we publish this. Her energy is really good.

The Admins and I have also Talked Via Phone, and  We decided to Delete the entire Spell album so we could go in and triple check the photo artwork and the spells to make sure they do not belong to someone else, or to give credit if we use them. I don’t want to make the same mistakes.

I never meant to hurt anyone. This was not my intention with the page. I just wish someone would have said something to me and given me a chance to fix it before they started treating me like I was some demon thief hurting people on purpose. I have been mistreated by people before EVEN by PAGANS but nothing like this. I almost deleted everything but my fiancée and friends like Frisky and Lorelei reminded me that we had more people who benefited from what we do than people who don’t like me or who don’t care enough to give me a chance before stepping all over me.

Thank you Magaly
For everything and thank you Lorelei

Edward Menten is one of the souls behind Confessions of Crafty Witches

*************

This went longer than I thought it would, but I didn’t want to edit anything. I feel every word is important, even the repeated ones. So many horrible things have been said these last few days; some due to misinformation and more due to a weird frenzy I can’t quite explain. It just seems to me that one person (or three) went a bit too far.

I know Kallan Kennedy. I know her well enough to believe that she would never do anything to hurt anyone on purpose. I’ve been following this plagiarism madness for a bit, and I think too many people took Kallan’s words, covered them with nonsense, and ran with the mess.

All this could have been handled differently. Mario R. Zeleny wrote a wonderful article, “Realities About Plagiarism: 10 Ways to Take Back Your Power,” which I believe is the beginning of a series of posts on how to deal with this issue. I’m going to throw Mario under the bus here (I haven’t asked him), and say that he could probably come up with some steps to help those who might become plagiarists because they don’t know any better.

The plagiarism of intellectual property is despicable. It is stealing bits of someone’s soul. It should be corrected and punished. But reprimanding one of our own (publicly!) before giving him/her a chance to fix the problem is not something I can stand for.

No one is perfect. Not you, not me. Many mistakes have been made in the handling of this issue. I believe apologies are needed all around; and healing, much healing… Here is a bit of soothing in the shape of a spell by one of our favorite witchy women:

“A Spell for Healing” by Dorothy Morrison

Light a blue candle and visualize the person who needs healing. When the picture is clear in your mind, target the area of disease and color it bright red. Now visualize tiny workers with buckets of soft green paint, brushes and rollers. Hold the picture until the workers completely cover the affected area with green. Then open your eyes and say: I hold you in my heart And wrap you in my love My circle of protection Descends now from above And as I send this energy All pain shall disappear And all disease shall dissipate And shrivel up in fear The emptiness I now replace With fresh vitality So you may thrive upon the Earth In laughter, love, and glee Brightest blessings and good health, my friend, Encase you from now on I ask that They watch over you And keep you well and strong Let the candle burn all the way out.

Dorothy Morrison - Everyday Magic [Published by Llewellyln Worldwide 1998, (page 167)]

Edited: CoCW was deleted in July 2014.

112 comments:

  1. You didn't throw me anywhere... though it does sound good! Actually, I did my own investigation and concluded the same thing that this interview did as well. Mr. Menton was stupid and careless not criminal. He has been criminalized by some to justify their own intolerance, unkindness, lack of compassion and even expressions of violence.

    I would create a post about prevention of plagiarism, but there are so many out there. Maybe I will grab one and put it on my blog. lol

    What I take issue with is the attitudes, hatred, lack of compassion and even expressions of violence that have been put out publically toward Mr. Menton. I mean really, it reminded me of a witch hunt and someone has lit fire and the trolls are drooling... publically awaiting a meal. But then again, I am very grateful because I saw who was cruel, violent and stupid in their own right.

    NICE piece and really smart, Magaly. I really appreciate your perspective... your level head and your kindness.

    I maintain the responsibility of security is our own, kind and compassionate education comes next not public execution.


    HUGS and BLESSINGS...

    Mario

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    1. Thank you Mario

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    2. Mario, I think we are all learning all kinds of lessons with this one!

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    3. Well said sir :D XXX

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  2. WOW, looks like there was a bit of a war going on and no one really wanted to fight (thank goodness). Sounds like a monumental misunderstanding... you know what's weird, sites like Tumblr seem to me just like plagiarism heaven (from what I've seen via my youngest daughters blog) no one often knows who's work/property the words/images once were & people whose quotes/images are reblogged on countless sites seem proud their work has been spread worldwide (with no affirmation of whose original intellectual property it was) yet at the same time all of my uni daughter's assignment work goes into an 'originality' program that scores it based on every other work lodged present & past as no plagiarism is tolerated... I think the whole world needs to be kinder, give people a chance to make things right, apologise, learn but at the same time it seems like very mixed messages are being given via the internet to those who don't have formal (rather than self-taught) education of what is unacceptable/acceptable in reposting others work. Toughie, well handled Magaly!

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    1. I agree, Shelle, love. We need to give each other the benefit of a doubt (or three doubts). And people need to be more responsible with the stuff of others. The golden rule of treating others like you expect to be treated applies every time. And about Tumblr and Pinterest? Nightmares for giving credit!

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  3. Mr. Menten is correct about his persona coming from the game. Players did their best to be anonymous or take on a character to keep the other gamers out of their personal lives. It could get very weird when it came to that game.
    I have not seen the fuss much myself. If the issue is being fixed I see no reason for continued discord.

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    1. And this things take time. He was wrong, he should have probably started fixing things a lot sooner, but we all do less than awesome things every now and then. I believe in rehabilitation.

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  4. Karma works both ways... Please go back to the original (not american) teachings. Pax - Love in Christ.

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    1. Every now and again, people forget the way energy works. Then it hits them in the face...

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  5. *Rewritten due to typos*
    I'm a little confused here, Where on that blog did anyone ever personally attack Mr. Menton? His blogging practices yes. His person? No. Also another point I'm confused about is why all of a sudden is everyone assuming that Kallan wrote the blog. I've not seen anywhere that she has claimed to have wrote it. Being vocal about a well founded concern (which plagiarism is) is not the same as claiming to have written the expose. That being said Hooray for Menton making the effort to correct his wrongs. However if he was truly sorry for his crimes (which again plagiarism is and ignorance is no excuse) they why every time someone tried to point this out to him (there are a number of documented cases of this as well) did he block, then ban, then send his minions out after those people. I know numerous people have said they have contacted him only to get flamed. Also the links you've provided about soda head say the same thing as the screen shots on the blog. So, I'm curious as how or what they supposedly photo-shopped. Also please provide links or screen shots from the blog where they posted hatred, lack of compassion or even expressions of violence toward Mr. Menton. If I've missed these somewhere I'd loved to see them. Again, has anyone even tried to contact the bloggers who wrote the expose? Also I'd like to point out that I've seen where people have pointed out where something came from and were banned from his page Confessions of Crafty Witches. I'd consider that being given a chance to correct a wrong and then not taking it. Thoughts?

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    1. Tk, no one has said anything about who wrote A Plagiarist Revealed. Where did you read it on this post? I linked the post where Kallan invites people to boycott artists attached to CoCW, other than that, I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about. Who said that Kallan wrote A Plagiarist Revealed? Please use quotes, so that I can see.

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    2. Ah, Thank you for replying so swiftly. I apologize. No where in this post does it say she wrote it. I assumed it was implied, and we all know what it says about assuming. However, Now that we've cleared that bit up... Could you please response to the others points in my previous posting.

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    3. Tk, I won't go to someone's profiles--someone who doesn't have a public wall--and take screen shots of their information. That's rude and should probably be illegal. Just because they are sharing the information with me, it doesn't give me (or anyone else) the right to share it with the world.

      This blog specifically addresses the call for boycotting artists attached to CoCW. I think it's wrong, you and I don't have to agree.

      Ignorance does not excuse plagiarism. But asking friends to turn their backs on other their friends makes me feel uncomfortable.

      There is no way to contact the creators of APR--the last time I checked, the site didn't allowed comment. I don't know if that has changed in the last few minutes.

      Edward Menten was wrong, terribly wrong, I told him so myself. I suggested contacting people who can teach them the law. And also apologizing to every single artist--but that will take a little time.

      He has apologized, he has been seeking help, he is deleting stuff, he is giving credit to those who want to stay on...what else should he do? And my biggest question, how does shutting down Confessions of Crafty Witches (that is not managed by EM alone, by the way) or boycotting artists who are promoted by them fixes the problem?

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    4. NO. You are wrong on both points.

      1. His wall was public at this time.

      2. The blog NEVER said that. There were people that said that they did not want to support vendors associated and that is their prerogative to do so. No one was told to do that. Ever.

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    5. What blog? Are you talking to me? I'm confused.

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    6. I must admit I'm confused as to how someone could screen shot something that wasn't public. Also could you point out to me which shots on the blog were private? I'm trying to form a better understanding of how things posted on a public site are considered private. Could you please elaborate for me?

      Besides the intro in your blog you never mentioned the boycott Kallan and few others have proposed. Nor did I comment on it. So what is there to disagree with?

      I can see feeling uncomfortable with someone asking you take a stand. It is an uncomfortable process.

      As to contacting the blogs owners. Perhaps Mr. Menton could ask for an open dialog with them?

      Please point out with quotes or screen shots where Kallan or APR have ever proposed to have the site shut down?

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    7. Also could you address the other points in my 1st posting.

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    8. Tk, I have the feeling that you are being obtuse on purpose here. And that's okay. I didn't say that the wall were the call for boycotting was public (I said it was public to me--to friends of the individual). If you are friends you can see them, too. If not, it is information you can't use. My apologies. I linked the pages I discussed--not the individual pages on APR because I think people can click on the individual links once they are there.

      Taking a stand is not uncomfortable for; I've always taken mine. You'd know if you knew me. Maybe you'll stick around and we'll get to know each other better. What made me feel uncomfortable was being told that if I didn't unfriend one person, then I would lose another. I know we all have the right to make that call, just like I have the right to say that it is a tad childish.

      You are welcome to stop by Kallan's blog and do a little reading. I'm sure that if you contact Kallan, she'll tell you. Something that my friend has never been is shy, I won't speak for her. About the "screen shots" I'm not providing those, if you are friends, stop by and do a little browsing.

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    9. Magaly, I'm sorry. I'm trying to paint while writing this. I meant the IP blog never had anything written in it calling for a boycott. And I believe Kallan's wording on her status was that she would not support vendors that support CoCW. At this time, there were no apologies or even acknowledgements. I hope this cleared it up.

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    10. I did not mean to be obtuse. So please forgive me for coming across that way. I'm sincerely trying to understand the place your coming from. I think perhaps you took my uncomfortable comment a bit to literally. It is uncomfortable when a person takes a stand that you don't agree with for what ever reason. I have looked for Kallan saying that she wanted the site shut down and I failed to find it. You said "And my biggest question, how does shutting down Confessions of Crafty Witches (that is not managed by EM alone, by the way) or boycotting artists who are promoted by them fixes the problem?" As Kallan was referenced in your post and in our preceding conversation, so I wanted to know where she said this. Edward himself has said that Kallan and the writers of APR wanted to shut down Confessions... I can not find where they said that. If they did then please forgive me for I failed to find it. I think we've about covered everything I had questions about except about documented attempts to contact him being meet with hostility from Edward. I do agree with waiting and letting seeing if he truly changes his ways Now that he knows better and I'm happy that he is big enough to to admit his mistakes and makes an effort to correct it!

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    11. I didn't know that EM said that Kallan was the one who wrote the page. The status for the shutting down of CoCW was shared with a link to another site that was shut down. You can read on the boycotting and blacklisting on Kallan's latest page.

      I will say, and I'm just speculating because I haven't been able to speak with Kallan, that it is very likely that she might not follow through with this after all what has been said. Kallan has a big heart, so I don't see her not waiting to see if EM means his latest apologies. Not that I can say what anyone else will do. If he doesn't keep his promises, then we should go from there. That's what I think.

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    12. For the record, plagiarism is not a crime. Copyright infringement is.

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    13. For the record, Christian, you're wrong. "NORMALLY [emphasis mine] plagiarism is not a crime, but it can be used as the basis of a fraud charge or copyright infringement, if prior creation can be proved." (from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/plagiarism)

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    14. Actually, I'm not. Being used as the basis of another crime is still not the crime itself.

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    15. And boy do you ever seem to stalk the Interwebs for whoever I am. It intrigues me how much people I have no knowledge of or interest in seem to have so much of an opinion of me. Gotta love celebrity. :)

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  6. I would like to say something. And I want this to be known first and foremost. I am sick to death of this whole subject.

    Edward Menten was approached. When he was approached he ranted, blocked and put people on a troll blog. A troll blog. http://www.blogger.com/blogin.g?blogspotURL=http://trollsandstalkerpyschopaths.blogspot.com/
    Which he still has, but is invite only.
    So, tell me. Is that just stupidity? Because if it is, its a vindictive stupidity.

    I'm sorry that this has blown to these proportions. I would have loved to have been able to just say something to Mr. Menten, and he removed it and not called people names or put them on a troll blog.

    Also, as TK mentioned, Kallan isn't the only one behind this. Why is she having the finger pointed at her?

    And why is Edward nice to a well-known pagan when asked to remove items, but everyone else he posts on his personal facebook page to get them removed from Facebook and asks people to attack them. It all seemed very mobbish. These things let me know that he can apologize and apologize, but until he means it, its just words. Words that mean nothing.

    I love the idea of his page. I think its awesome. I love what he is doing. I hope he is planning on going forward on his word. I like that he did apologize. I like that he is deleting those things. I hate that it had to go down this way. Why did it? Because, until he was forced to, he had no plans to remove the items and stop claiming other people's things as his own.
    But, if he is true to his word from here forward, then the whole thing does need to be dropped now.

    And anonymous posts shouldn't be allowed. If someone wants to say something they need to show who they are. My goodness.

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    1. Loren, you almost made me cry. Okay, I'm crying. Because I wanted to hear from you, especially those last few paragraphs.

      Edward Menten did wrong, and that I know of the creators to APR didn't contact him. That is what he said, and I think he is telling the truth. I don't think he thinks Kallan put the APR together--he has no idea who did.

      He was made aware of the call to boycott artists--and that is a bit far Loren.

      Anyway, I'm right with you. We should all say what we must in these next few days, and remember that families argue, especially with bullheaded cousins who act dumb every now and then.

      There is no need for all this. It makes us look and kind of feel ugly, too--as a group. We are better than this, much better.

      I believe Edward Menten means the apologies. And I'm with you, if this is the end, then we all can be friends. However, if this continues or starts again I will be the first to say what must be said.

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    2. I agree with you, I feel like everyone needs a hot, soaky bubble bath. The stench from all this just sucks.

      Going forward is the only possible thing to do. Division breaks up communities and families.

      Its an ugly, ugly, ugly thing. Ugly.

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    3. I'm with you, Loren.

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    4. On this one, I'm with Loren and you both, Petoskystone.

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  7. Thoughtful and intelligent, Megaly. Regardless what the alleged response was or is, fighting fire with fire is wrong and keeps destruction going. Mr M is taking the right steps forward.

    Pax

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  8. ugly is wanting to do violence to teach someone a lesson.

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    1. Mario, you are correct and I have been known to "do violence" in response to ongoing problems. Sometimes it is needed. Sometimes not. When I do get to that point, I've usually reached my breaking point. This whole affair make me want to pull out my own hair.

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    2. I have Apologized, Deleted Every Single Blog
      they are not hidden they are DELETED FOR GOOD
      now I want everyone to leave me alone
      Stop Talking about me Stop harrassing me
      Stop stalking me Stop bullying me

      I want to be left alone go harrass someone else

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  9. Honestly...sick of this, too...but I don't hear much remorse. Saying he apologized is one thing but I need to see real proof and less excuses for things he did in the past that he didn't think had any consequences.
    Curious though, why didn't you address the Troll list with him? Does he still have that?
    That was current and not a mistake of an immature youth...and that was certainly a bit of him publicly reprimanding 'our own'.
    You have your own relationship with him Magaly and I hope you are happy with it. Time will tell if he is sincere. I don't feel like I can trust him yet.

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    1. Lina, I don't know Edward Menten enough to say that he is absolutely sincere. He sounded very sincere to me, but I've been wrong more than once. I'm hoping we can all learn from this. Stay watchful, maybe police our own in house or something.

      About "the Troll list" I can't ask questions about something I have no access to? Do you have access to it?

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    2. The Troll list is Deleted the entire blog has been deleted

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  10. This is wonderful. Here is the thing.. No one is ever going to agree on everything .. EVER NEVER EVEN IN OUR WILDEST DREAMS... As spiritual people we are honestly the most forgiving, loving, and understand on any of the people on this earth.. We believe in making mistakes is how we learn to grow and not only that raise our vibrations.. WHY ARE WE ALL STILL FIGHTING.. Ok he made a mistake .. HE REALLY MESSED UP .. He also admitted he did most of these things when he was filled with ego ... Can we all agree that "ego" is kinda like that horribly drunk night at the bar when you wake up with a horrible sense of regret and shame? We need to learn to forgive even the worst of things.. NOTHING WILL BE SOLVED WITH HATE.. We will only solve things with love and honesty <3 hes trying to fix things.. That is all we can honestly ask for. The past is the past.. YOU CANT CHANGE IT..

    Also, As for the banning people on his page.. I was attacked by a Fb group on my page .. I was seriously attacked to the point that I had to call the cops, I had over 50 people and 1 guy making over 100 Facebook like pages to start trouble because he didnt agree with what I do . .. I was blocking and banning everyone who even SMELL of hate. Does this mean I was wrong as well . NO IT DOESN'T .. He was doing what he felt was right and to be 100% honest with you.. I would have done the same thing.. guilty or not .. Those other people on the page who love him and would support him SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SEE THE HATE .. plus it would start a whole other fight between everyone on his page and would ruin the love his page stands for.. idk to me I feel I would have done the same exact thing..

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    1. Sometime back someone stole some articles from me. I found out because one of Pagan Culture reader's read it and thought I had my work translated. The person was a "friend." I was so mad that I drove to the house of this individual, half blinded by tears. When I got there, I just threw the ripped pages of the magazine and the person's face and started wailing. Not very subtle or cute, but it's different when someone does it on purpose. Like you said, Edward messed up big time, and like you said, we should do what we can to help him--that is what community does--and then move on.

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  11. Magaly - you got a very different interview from him than I did. However, I, too, concluded that he is a man who is utterly clueless about copyright laws, infringement, licensing, etc.

    I published my article today on the Riot regarding the larger issue, though I don't focus on Confessions (however, I do mention them and include brief excerpts from my equally lengthy interview with Menten). I also spoke with people at Better Gnomes & Cauldrons and a few other folks.

    And, being me, I discuss the various laws from my legal background and try to give some plain English definitions and logic to it all.

    http://www.incitingariot.com/2013/09/pagans-copyright-infringement-and.html

    Love and Lyte,

    Fire Lyte

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    1. The legal points you made were wonderful, Fire Lyte. You and I discussed the rest, so I will leave it at that.

      Write on...

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  12. Sounds like there are some lovely witches who need to ground themselves and shake that negative energy. I love CoCW regardless of the morale values associated with the admins. I am very thankful that now when they post awesome things I can find and follow the pages of the artists. Daw you have a great sense for how to rally people your energy is contagious and it sounds like you have similarly talented associates I hope you can all use these skills to move positive energies into all of our lives. Blessed be darlings!

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    1. I think we should all work on helping each other to do the right thing. We should police our own and such. I've only "met" Edward, and I liked him. I think he's very stressed out over all this, but I think if we lend him a hand he'll continue to work towards doing the right thing.

      Delete
  13. Anonymous9/03/2013

    I've never been on this particular page...but I will say this much. I feel that unless you're receiving money's from items, then let others see. Believe it or not, most of us do not pay attention to who the originator is. We're looking for peace, serenity, love, or absolution. Honestly? I don't care who's name is attached to it, would it be nice for you as an artist?... Well, of course!!! But it shouldn't make a difference if you aren't posting for pay.

    I left an organized religion because of all the bull crap, accusations, "I'm better", "listen to me", and "you'll never live up to the standard" that I was seeing. I THOUGHT after researching many beliefs that Pagan/Wiccan actually meshed with how I felt. I see this same type of egotistical crap going on and wonder if all beliefs are going to a monetary hell.

    This actually makes me sad, I hope that we can get past the "it's mine" attitude and be willing to share instead of complaining that so many might be getting better just because of a post that doesn't have a name labeled as the "original".

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    1. It should be noted, Anonymous, that some people make their living off of those images. Saying 'it's mine' is how they put clothes on their back and send their children to college. Not posting for pay isn't the same is not affecting profit. If you post a piece of artwork and don't include attribution, that artist loses out on potential sales, which is the same thing as theft - legally speaking, according to the letter of copyright law.

      Further altering a person's image to create a meme that will drive traffic to your business or site to promote other businesses is also illegal, as a creative commons license specifically states no derivatives. That means you can share the work all you want, but you cannot change it. Few artists release their work under this type of license. Most retain full copyright.

      Basically, artists, authors, musicians, etc. also have a right to get paid. Just because it's pretty and makes you feel good doesn't mean someone else doesn't deserve compensation for their work. The "it's mine" mentality is simple economics and has nothing to do with being pagan or not.

      FL

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    2. Anonymous, I side with Fire Lyte on this one. If people were to steal my writing without giving me attribution, I wouldn't be able to pay my bills. That would suck very much. And when it comes to images it is even more difficult to protect the work, so we should be good to each other and not steal someone else's thoughts and blood.

      It isn't decent; it isn't the witchy thing to do. When something is wrong we fix it and then move on to better things.

      Delete
    3. Dear ANON, I like that you think everything should be free to share in love and light, but reality sucks and bills have to be paid. I myself am new to taking money for my art, but I would happily make you a piece of art, just for you, for free(smallish as I have to pay postage, just to show you that mostly pagans are loving and caring people.

      Delete
  14. I just now read the blog Kallan wrote. I saved her the time and deleted her myself. I was nice enough when she sent me all her concerns that my brand would be hurt by my association with Edward. She seems to forget I put serial killer wanted posters on trees and bikini clad vampires covered in blood on street poles and my brand just kept on rising. Controversy sells. I don't agree with copyright infringement anymore than she does but there's a way to handle it this little Witch hunt was simply not it. Shame on her for being such a bully in all this. I'm happy to have Edward on my Hex Education radio show on Wednesday night and I plan on talking about some of this. He's been more than willing to see the error of his ways, more than most on the internet who continue to share stuff every day without attribution. Let her "pressure" all the vendors she wants. I don't need Kallan or her money, thank you very much. People buy my shit cuz it works.

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    1. I don't think Kallan intended for this whole mess to become some kind of witch hunt, Christian. She wanted to do the right thing--she is very big on people taking responsibility for their actions; it's one of the reasons we first became friends. I feel--and have deduced from what I've read--that all this got out of hand. Like Loren said (and thank goodness for that!) Kallan was not the only person who was going after people, once the APR blog was made published. Many others joined the site by grabbing the badge and adding to the insanity.

      I'm hoping we all stand up and do the right thing. We are Witches, we know what it is to have the finger (and more) pointed at us. We shouldn't do this kind of thing to each other.

      I'm not saying that we can all drop our clothes and dance naked under the moon right away, but at least we can get the bonfire going. Maybe a few drinks and some drums...

      Delete
    2. Well, I just wish instead of coming to me with fear tactics about my "brand" being hurt, she could have just said, "hey, you know this guy, why don't you talk to him?" It just smacks of intimidation and, while I'm all for intimidation when necessary, it wasn't necessary here. Edward could not have been more amenable. Now, let's just say for the sake of argument (because I don't actually believe this) that he only did it because I have "pull," as someone said on Kallan's Facebook page, so what? Then, if people think I have pull, all the more reason to come to me and say, "Hey, you have pull. Will you have a chat with him?" I just think this never had to be the big deal it became and she certainly didn't have to threaten to boycott artists. I've often overreacted to things myself and I've also forgiven far worse so it's not like I'd never talk to her again or anything, but I just can't see the point of going on about this like everyone has been.

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    3. I wasn't aware you had been contacted in that manner. When I spoke to Edward he was suspicious and not very trustful--I didn't blame him, I came out of nowhere. But after I explained myself and said that all I wanted was for him to answer some questions to be shared at a place where everybody could read it whenever they liked (things like this tend to get lost in the giant that is CoCW, but Pagan Culture is just the right size) he was all right. Shared more than I expected. And I'm glad for that.

      This could have, indeed, gone differently. It isn't hard to see that Edward Menten is an explosive guy, so he needed to be handled gently. Once you speak to him and let him see that he is not being threatened, he acts like a gentle bear.

      I'm glad you're trying to help him. He is doing great things for artists when it comes to promotion. Yes, he has done some less than commendable things in the way. But if we help him, he can be wonderful and those artist will continue to get the help he offers.

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    4. Hi!

      I am in the UK and was so pleased when I woke up this morning to find links to this blog in my newsfeed! Thank you for sharing Edward's side of the story Magaly.

      As he mentions, we first met when it came to my attention that a photo of one of my Cheeky Witch mugs had been shared on COCW and I wrote to him, telling him that it was my photo and my mug and could he please attribute it to me.

      When he replied he seemed completely mortified and apologised profusely and immediately went back to the photo, attributed it to me and linked to my FB page, website, etc. I could tell he was honestly and sincerely very sorry. He did not know where the photo had originated from - he had thought the mug was funny and wanted to share it with the Crafty Witches.

      I have come across photos of my mugs on other pagan pages - one in particular, which is very well known, and when I wrote to them about it, several times, I had no response whatsoever!

      My only dealings with Kallan Kennedy was a few months ago, when she accused me of having 'tampered with' a deck of cards - which I often use for my Daily Divinations Blog - saying that I had added text to the cards and how upset the artist would be that I had tampered with his work. When I proved her wrong and pointed out that this particular deck of cards were bought and had been published that way, she didn't have the decency to reply, or to apologise for her mistake...

      Edward Menton is a good guy, he has a heart of gold and helps a lot of people for no reward whatsoever. He has made mistakes in the past - we all have and no doubt we shall all make mistakes and errors of judgment in the future too - after all, we are only human!

      However, he is working hard to rectify past mistakes, while still working equally as hard to continue to help artists and crafts people in the pagan community.

      I am proud to call him my friend.

      Delete
    5. Hi Kaz, I've known Edward for less than a week. Actually just a few days. I stayed away from this whole thing because too many of my friends were involved in the push and pull war. We both know he has done a lot of wrong, he knows he has done a lot of wrong, and will probably make more (let's hope smaller this time). But like you said, in my short exchange with him, I feel he has a good heart. A temper, too, but don't we all? I think if we all help him see that not the entire world is out to get him, he'll loosen up a bit. And we can all learn from this.

      I've known Kallan for a long time. She is very set in her views, goes heart and soul for what she believes in, and sometimes I think her morals don't give much room to the mistakes of others. But deep in that storm that is Kallan Kennedy lies a huge heart. I'm hoping she lets it out soon. This is not the first time Kallan and I argue about something--this might be the ugliest though. Still, I'm hoping she comes around. Who knows, maybe she might even apologize for the card issue.

      Delete
  15. Ack, that story. The APR thing smells too much like a witch hunt to me. And WE DON'T DO THIS KIND OF THING. After all, we are witches and know what that feels like. Plus I guess it goes against several rules and guidelines. Besides, I do not see what the people behind the whole thing intended to achieve. Does not look really constructive to me.

    I looked at the blog and the FB page in question. Several FB friends posted about this issue, siding with APR. I read some of the posts on both sides, followed links ,looked at stuff. And I have to say, as an outsider I have been disappointed by both sides. The witchhunt thing is one thing, but I also have to say that Mr. Menten, when reading his posts, appears to act like some kind of, "I am the victim and all of you are eeeevil" passive aggressive guy. I don't know about the past, and I don't know whether he was truly evicted from previous groups because he is a male pagan (possible, there are enough stupid pagans out there), but after the behavior he should in his recent posts, I surely would not want to be in a group with him.

    All in all? Too much negativity and BS floating about. I think I will remain swimming in my own rivers.

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  16. I agree with the mess having been fed from both sides. But I agreed to interview Edward Menten for a reason. I don't like to see anyone being kicked. I believe that when you kick a dog over and over and over and over over... even the most vicious of animals will whine. They won't actually learn anything. All what will be accomplished is to break the spirit of the beast. We have too many broken things... we don't need more.

    Swim on, my darkly caffeinated Diandra ;-)

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  17. People are so uptight about plagiarism on the net, a place where information is infinitely reproducible at a negligible cost, which is ironic isn't it?

    Maybe it's just because, as an artist I really don't care that much if someone uses my work, or maybe it's because nobody plagiarizes my work, heh heh, but I just don't feel like you can own an intangible piece of digital work, let alone an IDEA.

    To me, that is the possessive, acquisitive thinking of the OLD world, the MATERIAL world, not digital world. In the digital world we don't need to possess, we should just play.

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    1. I don't think someone should share someone else's work without attribution. Period. It's wrong when it comes to my own work, and I know many others are like that. But I share lots of things for free. It's just nice to be asked, you know? And like I said a little while ago, when an artists pays the bills when his/her work, taking from them is even more terrible. Does that make any sense?

      Besides, there is a lot free stuff out there, and tons of artist wanting to share--I heard Mutan Calaveras is willing ;-)--so all we need to do is work a bit. Give credit where is needed, ask permission and so on, and then we'll be happy ;-)

      Delete
  18. Well done Magaly. I too have been following this horrendous situation. As a previous gentleman has already pointed out, there was something stomach churning about witches leading a witch hunt I have been following conversations on FB pages that totally shocked me. I wasn't "friends" with anyone involved but was easily able to see their threats and "playground bulky" tactics. I was not a follower of CoCW when this all kicked off, but I am now, as I saw the changes occurring on the page And yes Mr Menton did have a couple of pops back at them, but I never saw anything on CoCW asking anyone to go hunt anybody else down...in fact he asked the page followers to please just ignore them.
    As someone who "watches from a safe distance" I have certainly learned a lot this passed few weeks about the online pagan community. No different from the real world at all :D
    Let's hope the healing will truly begin from now on. Blessed Be XXX

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    1. Let's hope for healing, indeed!

      Delete
  19. I am an artist and poet, I put my art work and my poetry up on a pagan page I help run with my sister, IF at anytime I have a picture that fits my words, I ALWAYS put that I own the words but NOT the picture itself, likewise with some posts we share from other pages, as an artist, and poet I am happy that someone was to share my work, FREE ! If I post my name at the bottom, I am PROUD that others can relate to what I have written, much love and light, YES EM messed up, but he is TRYING to resolve the issues, to start a Witch hunt (for want of a better word) is NOT the right way of going around it, help him, give him a chance to rectify. PEACE :)

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    1. It is lovely to find others who can relate to our artistic view of the world. Many of us share free work, which is one of the reason why plagiarism is so nasty. If there is free stuff out there, people should have choose that and leave alone the rest. I think Edward has been learning that and will get better if we give him a hand, we just need to not give up on him. Peace, right back at you ;-)

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  20. Just my five cents on this subject to close it for good and really move on, for my part, at least. I am proud to be part of CoCW, Edward became a personal friend, he had apologized for his behavior in the past (distant past and recent past), he`s crediting to the right owners what he posts like recipes, spells, art, etc. If all this and everything else he`s been doing to fix this is not enough, and some people really prefer to keep this loop, and start a new one discussing why only now he decided apologizing, etc, then it`s their problem. CoCW moved on, Edward moved on, I moved on, everybody did. Enough energy spent and wasted on this.

    But I've seen a couple of people here saying that they couldn't find anywhere in FB where Kallan incited her friends to block CoCW. It`s because her specific post:
    "If you stand against Plagiarism and Copyright infringement then unlike the page and boycott vendors who market with Confessions of Crafty Witches. It's time our community (who claims to be about personal responsibility) takes a stand against this kind of theft" was hidden or deleted by her, along with the thread of comments supporting this unfair suggestion. But, deleted or not, she knows she wrote it, and her friends know she wrote it. If I needed one single reason to definitely leave all this crap behind, this is the reason. I can't take seriously someone who hides or deletes her own words not to be accused of have written them.

    That said, I applaud Magaly for her initiative of interviewing Edward. Great post.

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    1. No one has said they can't find that post. I still see that post on her page so I'm confused why your saying she removed it. I asked where it was said that she wanted the site removed or deleted.

      Delete
    2. there are far worse people than me AT LEAST I owned up to my misteake and tried to fix it and apologize and make things right
      but its like Witch wars and I am being Burned at the STAKE

      I have DELETED Every Single Blog I have
      now leave me alone all of you just leave me alone

      Delete
    3. Yes Edward you have owned up to your mistake! Thank you! Your correcting your mistakes! Wonderful! It takes alot to do that, and I applaud you for it! However painting the people who have pointed out your mistake as evil or wrong is well....wrong. Maybe if you also apologized for asking people to report anyone who did so would go a long way toward proving that your sincere about all this. No one likes having a mistake pointed out to them or shoved in their face. But, on that same token, no one wants to feel like they did wrong by pointing out a serious issue. If anyone is being burned at the stake I'd say Kallan is.

      Delete
  21. Anonymous9/04/2013

    I had been following the "troubles", and, I have to say, possibly the worst thing out of all this was the self-righteousness I saw on the Facebook pages that had been anti-CoCW/Edward Menten. I don't have a horse in this race-I'm not friends with Mr. Menten or Ms. Kennedy, and frankly, after the way this all played out, I have no interest in either one. Is plagiarism/copyright infringement/intellectual property theft wrong? Absolutely. But there was a far better way this could've been handled. I can only imagine the so-called "investigators" sitting behind their computers, with a smug look on their faces as they pat themselves on the back (and, given some of the things I've read since Mr. Menten has apologized and is making amends, I see it happening all too easily).

    I do hope the people who initiated "investigation" this realize that they will be scrutinized from here on out. These things have a way of coming back to bite people in the bums.

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  22. Exact quote which has been deleted from the page:

    "If you stand against Plagiarism and Copyright infringement then unlike the page and boycott vendors who market with Confessions of Crafty Witches. It's time our community (who claims to be about personal responsibility) takes a stand against this kind of theft."

    Just because something was deleted doesn't mean it was never there. Plenty of people saw it, plenty of people unfortunately FOLLOWED it's flawed reasoning, and plenty of people remember the hatefulness of the post.

    Talk about a witch hunt. It's time people start questioning their allegiance to someone so filled with negativity. This is certainly not the first time she's led her crew on a trip down "unfriend and block" this/that person.

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  23. Magaly, since I wasn't given time to call as you asked, I'll respond here by simply saying that I'll be blogging about this issue today.

    Christian, I wrote my blog about this issue before Edward's apology and before I knew you were working with him. I had intended to write a new one today, as yesterday I was really busy with real life stuff. I never threatened you, I was coming to you as a friend and asking for your advice. I think you are the only person who could have reached out to Edward, as I've seen how he treats anyone who he perceives as a 'threat'. I have no issues with you whatsoever. I respected your decision to not do anything at all about it at the time, and I respect that you are working with Edward now.

    That's all I'm going to say here.

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    1. Kallan, the private massage I sent you a few days ago wasn't about this specific post. I had not interviewed Edward Menten then. I'm getting on a plane, but I'll elaborate later.

      Delete
  24. I am going to add mine to the voices hoping that this stinking pile of excrement from the bowls of a drawn and quartered horse get put behind us and soon. It's great that Mr. Menten knows now what he did was wrong and that he's moving forward to make changes. Plenty of folks will be watching to see if he's as good as his word.

    I am not going to assume ill will on any of the parties involved. I dislike the thought of that as much as I am disliking that parts of this debacle seem to be bringing up old hurts and grudges, if my FB feed seems to be any indication. It seems a prayer for healing may be the most appropriate thing here - gods grant that it may be so.

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    1. ^^ Kestril took the words out of my brain.

      This is my first foray back in to the the online world in several days and this is what I see blowing up the blogosphere. (I'm still on Facebook hiatus, so I have no clue what happened there and honestly, I don't care.) I'm not going to go through and read everyone's posts, I'm not going to dig around for further information... I just don't feel the need to cloud my own mood with this, I have enough things going on with my family and friends face to face to do that for me right now.

      That said, I'm hoping the end of this comes swiftly and that people will heal from this in due course.

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  25. I have Apologized, Deleted Every Single Blog
    they are not hidden they are DELETED FOR GOOD
    now I want everyone to leave me alone
    Stop Talking about me Stop harrassing me
    Stop stalking me Stop bullying me

    I want to be left alone go harrass someone else

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  26. Huh. Since every one else is weighing in, guess I'll toss my hat in too. I find the way that Mr. Menton is treating those who have been respectfully giving their opinions in this thread very telling in regards to the validity of the claims that he called for action against those who approached him with this before all this blew up.
    I am amazingly unable to squeeze bullying out of any of the comments on this blog. How exactly is discussing the situation and asking for facts in order to be persuaded harassing? Stating that you have done something that you have just admitted in the public eye you have done isn't bullying. Telling others to attack someone or harass them is the very definition of bullying.
    While I appreciate that you have a friend who's business might be impacted by a boycott Magaly, how exactly can Kallan be faulted for asking for something that was part of her moral choices. She did not ask anyone to harass or interact with Mr. Menton at all. A boycott is something that someone can either participate in or ignore. What really seems to be going on her is that Mr. Menton's business practices were amoral and illegal and he was caught, which then in turn became an issue for his vendor's. That is squarely in Mr. Menton.
    Blaming Kallan for this is the same as blaming the news because they reported Chik Fil A was against gay rights and thus got boycotted. If Mr. Menton had not actually done what he was accused of none of this would have happened. There is a lot of blame displacement going on here and that is honestly something I didn't think I would ever see a lot of the people here doing.
    The real blame for the boycott lies with Mr. Menton. Had he used proper business practices in the first place it never would have happened and there wouldn't be a tarnish on a page that many enjoyed and filled a niche in the community.

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    1. I think I love you. Hooray for people making sense! Bravo!

      Delete
    2. I'm going to overlook your incredibly well stated opinion for a moment to just go ahead and squeal... you're back?!? It's so good to see you!

      Especially while leaving such a thoughtfully worded statement. :)

      Delete
    3. Hi Danni!!!! Yeah I'm back on and off. It's been a really hectic/crazy/ upheaval year in person over here and I pulled an ostrich and buried my head in the sand for a bit, lol.

      Delete
    4. Traveler - I don't know you, but I like you.

      Fire Lyte

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    5. Traveler, maybe you (and othes, it seems) and I just don't think the same way. I just don't think that this was handled the right way. I know it has been said that no one contacted Edward Menten before the publication of A Plagiarist Revealed (now deleted) because he was going to be rude and probably would insult people and so on...

      I believe in giving people a chance, even two. When Edward and I first spoke, he wasn't very forthcoming. He was spooked. Maybe because I started by saying that what he had done was wrong, wrong, wrong. But after I allowed him time to calm down, he said what he needed to say; answered my questions. I was never insulted or anything. I haven't been the only one who has gotten this reaction out of him.

      I will repeat, Edward Menten did something horrible. And ignorance is not an excuse, but should be remedied with teaching in a less vociferous way. Not even children can be disciplined by exposing all their faults in public and then saying that if anyone in the house speaks to them, then they have no honor.

      Giving people second chances, some might even need third chances and more talking to than others. Calling for friends to turn their backs on individuals who might need help is not the answer. If Edward had refused to do the right thing, then I would have given up, too. But while I see someone trying to make things better, I will help them. If that's attacking a person, then I'm guilty and will probably be guilty many times more.

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    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    7. 1 I was never Approached NOBODY EVER CAME TO ME.
      and Renee I have Screenshots of our last conversations and nowhere did you ever come to me In fact Renee Lets tell the Truth I was Sharing your page
      the last conversation we had you asked me to Share your Dragon Eggs
      and dont say I said anything nasty For once again I have Screenshots to prove you are a LIAR. Renee and you were friends with Vadora and you could have talked to her too and once again you did not EVER I have Screenshots. Renee so I suggest you stop Lying Renee and stop Stirring this around you are Lying I have Proof you are Lying. you never contacted me Renee
      2 I wrote those BLOGS BEFORE I Created Confessions of Crafty Witches
      and FORGOT about them okay. thanks for Listening

      Delete
    8. Ed, I think we should stop here. Focus on fixing the mistakes of the past. I know this can be difficult, for I feel you are a person who has a hard time just letting people say what they want to say without you adding your bit, too.

      Yet, sometimes that is best just leave it alone, seriously. Do it for those who have stood by you and want to make this better. Move forward, go back only to give credit to those artists whose work you shared without attribution in the past or to remove the work if you can't find the creators to ask for permission.

      And if anyone posts images of violations, which you forgot about, just thank them for doing the research for you, fix it if you have access to it, if not contact the proper people who can fix it. Then move forward. Doing the right thing doesn't always feel good--it isn't easy either--but it leaves the heart feeling full. The alternative is misplaced hate and dissatisfaction with self. You don't want that in your life. Be bright, and get busy ;-)

      Delete
  27. Ok I don't have a horse in this race. I don't know anyone on either side of this argument, and I have read a few posts from the involved. What's striking to me is the difference in views depending on which side you're on. There haven't been many responses from a middle ground. Either Magaly is completely wrong and "attacking" Kallan, or she's applauded for supporting Edward. And, these views are based on the "side" you choose.

    Why do sides have to be taken? Why can't this just be what it is, an interview? She asked questions and received answers. She cannot be held responsible for the actions of another (Edward or Kallan) She was trying to acknowledge all sides and in turn has made herself a target. Everyone has a right to be heard, and a right to their opinion, but I think we all need to maybe work on looking from a different point of view every now and then.

    So much for acceptance and inclusiveness....

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Amen, Doug. Thanks for posting what I was thinking.

      Delete
    2. Doug, I think feelings are really hot right now. I'm almost willing to say that, perhaps, some people didn't read the entire post. Because I can't quite see the foundation for some of the words.

      Thanks for inviting critical thinking into the conversation.

      Oh, and welcome to Pagan Culture. Hope you stay... every now and again, we need to be reminded to breathe, hold our tempers and use our brain with a bit of help from our hearts.

      Delete
  28. Wow, there is a lot going on here! I think the guy has apologized and did what he can do. It's time to move on ;o)

    ReplyDelete
  29. Ditto what Danni said. I've not been on FB for several days (due to herding the nieces back to school,) but this seems to have rolled itself into a nice big landslide. I'm not sure which end is up.

    I did really enjoy FireLyte's post today, and am currently going through all 400+ blog posts of mine to remove any pictures that I may have posted that are not mine and aren't properly linked or attributed. I do believe that a person's artistic expression (in whatever form) is their personal property.

    I did "unlike" the CoCW page on FB - I had only discovered it a short time before - after I heard that the content was almost entirely cut-and-pasted from other parties. I didn't "unlike" it because of a potential loss of a FB friend, but as someone who doesn't really want to engage in sharing material without tagging the artist/author.

    None of us are without fault here though. How many posts have we shared that may have had a picture that was un-attributed? I've only been blogging for 4 years, but the seriousness of giving attribution for photos found online was only brought to my attention last year after I read of another blogger being sued, and having to pay a large amount of money to an artist who's work she posted on her blog. I'm not tech savvy but I'm also not uneducated. I knew that I couldn't use someone else's pics to market my own products, but I wasn't aware that slapping a cute pic on my blog could land me with a huge payout to the original artist. I SHOULD have known though.

    At the end of the day, I have to check myself. Do I jump on something because it's a popular opinion, or because I believe in the cause? And if I believe in the cause, have I done some research? Bandwagons usually are tricky to ride safely on. People get run over, people bounce off the back end, and the horses are hard to handle. I'll sit this ride out, I think.

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    1. I like the idea of everyone going through their old posts and see where we, too, committed mistakes. I have a feeling the process would make some of us be less judgmental about certain issues.

      I have been re-labeling my posts, and have gone almost half way. I will go back and do what you're doing with the pictures. I've been decent about giving credit, but my Nature I'm not sure if I grabbed a thing or three in the past.

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  30. This whole thing has made me sick at my heart. There's so much anger and hurt and...It just is terrible. I sure hope that people who were friends before this horror are able to heal and retain their friendship.

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    1. I'm hoping for the same thing, Sarah. Maybe the friendships were strong enough to survive all the beatings. I have a feeling the shapes of the relationships won't be the same, but it would be nice if we could all look at each other's faces, admit that things got really ugly for a bit, and do what needs to be done to heal and go forward.

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  31. You know the friend I deleted the other day that I ranted about on my FB page? Well it was all over this non-sense. She sent all her Pagan friends a message saying they had x amount of days and if they hadn't unliked the page she was unfriending them because she didn't want the "bad karma" from other people sharing his work.

    I get not wanting to support someone who plagiarizes. But honest people can make honest mistakes and it all seems like a big witch hunt to me. I unliked the page, but only because I never payed any attention to it anyway. Then I unfriended my "friend" for daring to put a deadline on our friendship and issuing an ultimatum. As I said on Facebook, I react very negatively to ultimatums!

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    1. I don't deal well with ultimatums either. There is just something ugly about playing the me or them game. It doesn't sit well in the heart. I understand desperation sometimes drives us to do/say things that aren't gentle, but that is what apologies are for, you know? Let's hope...

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  32. As far as my own blog, I think I've been pretty good about sharing the link where I got the picture from. But that doesn't mean the person I got it from owned it either. So am I still at fault?

    That said, the past 8 months or so I've been using royalty free pictures more, or just none at all.

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    1. I've been half-decent, too. But I'll go through all my posts, just to make sure ;-)

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  33. Until I read your post Magaly I can't recall coming across either of what seems to be the two main parts of this argument before. I'm actually going to go back and look at COCW FB page as it looked quite interesting. The main thing that hit me though was the post on the American Witch blog. It took me right back to the school playground and the bullies who inhabited it. All the rhetoric of 'If you want to be my friend you can't be their friend and if you are no one I know will speak to you'. Talks of boycotting and removing people from being friends if they didn't conform to what someone else believed are the hall marks of a bully. I've met far to many of them in my life to want to have any truck with them now. I left the school ground along time ago, it's a pity some others never did.

    If I want to un-friend someone I will, but I don't feel I need to force other people I know to conform to what I think or believe. I left one religion because of that mind set. I don't deal in ultimatums, I have a free mind and will and I trust others to use their judgment equally in deciding what they want to do in life. Their life, their choices. I make mine accordingly.

    That's what I like about your posts Magaly, you put up your own opinions, informing of what had gone off, noting faults on both sides but not asking for people to join one side or the other. You just ask that people keep an open mind until the end of your post. Then you left them to form their own opinions, you didn't indulge in chronyism.

    This may well be a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other as my old mum would put it and they could well be equally as bad in their own ways. Yet that is up for me to make my own mind up on. Stealing other peoples work is most definitely wrong but can anyone truly say they've never done anything wrong in their entire lives? sometimes we all make mistakes. Mr. Menton seems to be trying to correct his and that's all anyone can do in life. I take photos off the internet, I try where possible to link to source but it's not always possible, I'd either correct or remove if anyone ever did get in touch with me about something. Like wise I know what I put up is open to being taken. Rule of thumb I don't put anything up that I'd be distraught over if someone else took it.

    The internet is a big place, it's impossible to police 100% it's up to us to take responsibilities for ourselves and sometimes we'll fail because we are human and make mistakes. I've yet to meet a perfect person in this world, most of us just muddle along the best we can, trying not to cause harm in our wake.

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    1. You know, I've been trying really hard to keep myself from comparing this case to the way organized religion works, but you are right to set the basics of the two side by side. There is no way around it. I left Catholicism for the same reason: people got mad at you if you asked too many (valid!) questions or if you did something they didn't approve of (regardless of what it might be).

      There has been a lot of ugly--a lot of it unintentional--but I hope we, as a community and friends, can still get something positive (even if just a bit) out of this mess.

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  34. All I am going to say is that going through ALL these responses, Mr. Menton has repeatedly asked to be left alone and I think it is time that he should. This whole mess has been beaten to a bloody pulp and then some.

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    1. And then set on fire, and put out, and set on fire again... I'm kind of surprise there still any of the mess left.

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  35. Well, now. This whole thing happened while I wasn't looking. Very interesting. I do want to say that the internet is a plagiarist's paradise. It's incredibly easy to find things to post on your blog and sometimes finding the owner isn't easy. That doesn't appear to be the case here. This sounds like a direct sort of thing. But, Tumblr and Pinterest are ripe with this sort of thing, so, I guess it doesn't surprise me. A lot of hurt with this one. I hope everyone involved can move on and put it behind them, now.

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    1. I'm glad you mentioned Tumblr and Pinterest. I'm going through my posts (slowly) and getting rid of all images from the two sites, unless I can see who created it. It's just too much of a mess.

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  36. I'm going to quote Mr. Menten and say that I believe this statement is true for many many people, and probably the real cause of plagiarism online: " I thought everything on the net was for everyone’s use. "

    I've seen that statement in the past by many people, and had a different variety of reactions after informing them of the truth. Some contrite, some contentious, but I doubt most people guilty of it intend harm.

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    1. I agree. Misinformation is many time the guilty party.

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  37. Accept that he was no where near as nice to my friend Marjenna L. Gittings when she asked to be credited for her work (A lovely poem called Twas the night before Samhain). what she got was a big "FUCK OFF" and told to go learn how the internet works. then he banned and blocked he. He hasen't learned anything


    this is the response he gave

    Trying to find out who produced the post going around of Twas the Night Before Samhain that does not carry my name as credit. This is the response I got from one site.
    Confessions of Crafty Witches

    Fuck off

    how about that

    you are blocked from my page so fuck off

    yeah lady someone Read your personal Book of Shadows and copied your poem when you Google Twas the night before Samhain and it shows up a dozen times by differant authors but oh no they all copied it from you Bullshit please fuck off

    LEARN how to use the Internet dumbass

    Once again Fuck you Fuck off and piss off

    I am banned from the page for wanting credit for my writings. This is NOT a very good way to treat each other. I have proof I wrote it if needed.

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    1. Hi Kirk,

      This is rather ugly, I almost didn't publish the comment (I monitor comments that are older than 30 days)... there is so much profanity that I don't like in my blog, but this issue is very important. Would you mind sharing with me when this exchange took place? I know Edward did/say some awful things in the past, but to my knowledge things were getting better. If this just happened, I will say that I'm saddened by it and even hurt. But if it happened months ago, then this might just be communication. Please get back to me, I would really like to know the dates. Thank you.

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  38. 10/27, 3:59pm is when the conversation took place. Why don't you ask him about it in the mean time. And discuss apologizing to Ms. Gittings publicly. Because this time we are not going to accept back door arrangements to keep it off the web.

    Boudica

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  39. I love backdoor arrangements... and I have proof!

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