Sacred Is a Personal Construct


My Piano Man and I have been making handfasting plans… and wedding plans… Yes, they’re different things. For me—for us—the wedding bit is papers, legalities and that kind of stuff. The handfasting is ours: two people making a promise to each other, probably in the woods under a crabapple tree, and going from there…

I was trying to explain that concept to someone who wanted to know if I had already thought about wedding venues, music, menus, colors, honeymoon locations… 

By the time she was done telling me all that “needs to be done in a wedding,” I was sure that I would have to hire at least five assistants to be able to keep up with the list. I don’t know about you, but I would rather not have any strangers crowding our day.   

The individual in question was very excited about wedding planning. So much so that she put a list together… for me. “Just to help you,” she said, “I know how you always stay busy.”

I was touched (and a bit creeped out), so I told her, “Thanks very much, but I feel terrible about you wasting your time in things I won’t use. My Piano Man and I will have only a few people in our celebration. I doubt the list will go over thirteen. And about the—”

“You can’t be eccentric about this, Magaly,” she said. “Weddings are sacred. Your family and the ones who love you want to be there for you. Share in the moment. Add to your happiness.”

Are you proud of me, my Wicked Luvs? I hope so because I am. I mean, I didn’t shout in her face that eccentric is in the eye of the beholder or that I wasn’t the freak putting lists together for someone else’s wedding, did I? Instead of pointing out the obvious, I asked her, “Why would you think that our definitions of sacred are the same or even compatible?”

After that, we (okay, mostly me) totally forgot about weddings and began to address sacredness. This is how things ended:

Self-Appointed Wedding Planner – Sacred is a communal opinion. It is the reason why symbols have to be approved in places like Arlington Cemetery, why so many are fighting over the “sacredness of marriage,” why churches are holy places…  

Most Eccentric Witch of Them All – Sacred is a personal construct. For instance, one of the most sacred symbols in my life is a hammer (and no, it has nothing to do with Thor). The “reasons” behind what symbols can be displayed on headstones in Arlington Cemetery are more political than anything else, churches are buildings made special by how some people feel about them, and PLEASE don’t get me started on the so-called fight over of the sanctity/holiness/sacredness of legal marriage because I might just puke on my keyboard.

So, my Luvs, care to share your thoughts on sacred? Personal or Communal? Who gets to choose? 

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64 comments:

  1. Okay, I can creep you out here: I am a huge fan of Offbeat Bride. (Mostly because of the dresses and the cakes, and I sometimes steal decorating ideas there.) Thy also have great posts on why you don't have to do everything like everybody else. ^^

    For me, everything is sacred - which means you can do everything as you like, as long as you have the proper attitude. ^^

    (I am not worrying about your attitude.)

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    1. I like Offbeat Bride, too. I think you (or someone else) suggested it to my friend who was having budget arguments with her husband to be. I like the articles and how people use their imagination to get exactly what they want for their day without sacrificing individuality, wallet or common sense.

      My attitude is delicious, we know that ;-D

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  2. I'd say that all depends on the practitioner and what sort of spiritual modality they adhere to.

    For instance, for my Jewish hubby, a lot of sacred things happen surrounded by an armada of chattering relatives and neighbors armed with deli trays. While some sacred moments are private, there are a few that are all about community. For me, the majority of my sacred moments were private. Although my Big Fat Jewish wedding was a public affair, the sacred moment came for me when after freaking out and stressing about everything that was going off that day, I looked at my husband waiting for me at the end of the aisle, took a deep breath and realized all of the rest was window dressing and he was all that counted in that circus.

    In my mind it varies. The practitioner chooses, no matter how eccentric they appear to the rest of the world (I love that word - LOL, I know it is often used as a polite way to say weird, but I own that word like a compliment). You and Piano Man are the ones getting handfasted, so you guys decide what is sacred in that situation.

    *giggle* But I'll admit a bit of sympathy for your friend in that I like weddings and their associated parties. I love all the dancing that goes on.

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    1. *giggle* One more thing. I had to include this video clip. The mom's lines at the end seem to go with this ("I need some beauty before I die! Do you hear me?") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPP70vRDmzM

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    2. But in the end, Kestril, you and your husband are the ones who CHOOSE to recognize your "Big Fat Jewish" wedding as sacred. Other people cannot make that decision for you, unless you allow them to.

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    3. True enough, even with him. LOL, it's still his choice to find meaning in the giant 3 ring circus. There's a fair bit I hear about which things one does and does not find sacred in the Jewish Reform movement (hubby goes to a Reform temple) and emphasis placed on finding one's own meaning even within the confines of a religion that is very communal. Case in point, hubby finds personal meaning in keeping kosher (LOL, feeling part of a community of kosher keepers and their traditions). My best friend, also Jewish, feels it's most spiritual for her to observe kosher rules only on Passover. Both work out fine in a Reform temple.

      So to say it shorter, you can choose to be community focused, but no one can make that choice for you.

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    4. The best thing is to do what make us happy, and hope everyone else will do the same (while remembering that their happiness should leave everyone else's alone). Tough, huh? lol

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  3. Grief...start us with an easy one Magaly...NOT!
    I think I'll try to stick to why marriage is sacred, or at least should be, but mostly isn't anymore. I don't know how it happened, but marriage used to be sacred, even before churches got involved. People were bonded in a union of protection, and a married person was given respect in the community... being known as a "good wife/husband" carried a lot of weight when decisions had to be made for the benefit of the community. Now it seems we are a dying breed. I don't judge others for not being married. If they are in a loving relationship, committed to each other and treating each other well, in my eyes they are married. The paperwork is as you said "for legal stuff". The whole "jumping through hoops in a hooped gown" horrifies me. I had a registry office wedding...and 60 people turned up to wish us well...we went to our local in the evening and 300 people turned up to wish us well...no buffet, no posh do, no posh frock. It was the love of the people around us that made our marriage sacred, not the paper, priest or fancy frock :D
    Have waffled too much but can't be arsed to clear it :D XXX

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    1. Your point is completely clear, Gina. And I agree, the promise two people make to each other (in front of the people of their choosing) is sacred indeed. The way in which they choose to do it is a different matter entirely.

      This is why I said that sacred is a personal construct. I have a couple of friends who choose to get married at the pier where they shared their first walk. They were surrounded by friends and family, tears and smiles (I was one of those doing both), but because they are gay, some (idiots mostly) might suggest their ceremony wasn't sacred. Why? Because well, marriage is something that happens between a man and a woman and the sacredness of that heterosexual/religious/socially accepted act most be defended by those who believe they have the right definition of sacred.

      You get what I mean?

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    2. Totally, this is one of the reasons I couldn't stay a member of the church group I belonged to, I wouldn't be told who had the right to love and who didn't. All love is sacred to me :D

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    3. And that, my dear Gina, is the reason why I LOVES you so much. And if someone tells me that I can't, then I would poke them in the eye. With a fireplace poker...

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  4. I believe that so much materialism has entered into planning a marriage that the sacredness of the union has somehow been lost in the shuffle. I've been in a loving relationship for 21 years now, and for all purposes we are married. Our love is just as strong as it was the day we met.
    Mary

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    1. If I agreed more with you, I might break my own neck with all the nodding.

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  5. I think you know what I'm gonna say about this, but I'll go ahead anyway :)
    Nothing is sacred - only what you personally make so. Though I do think most people would consider their own wedding/binding ceremony somewhat sacred - the idea that you should alter your wishes and plans to accommodate others, on this one of the most sacred days to you, is just crazy. And not in a good way.

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    1. That is exactly my point! The act (I'll say it again, regardless of how is done) is sacred to those who make is so. But to even imply that the sacredness of it is a communal thing over which the individual has little choice is freaking ridiculous. Or in the words of another, "the idea that [an individual or couple] should change [their] wishes and plans to accommodate others, on this one of the most sacred days to [them] is just crazy. And not in a good way."

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    2. Sometimes I read bridal forums to get a doze of drama (and support for my cause :)) and I am always surprised at how many family members and friends are allowed to RUIN someone's special day - with their "It has to be like this, you can't do that, you have to invite these". There are stories about lies and threats, ends of life-long friendships, fist fights and you-name-it! What the **** is wrong with people - why the hell are the regulations of someone else's wedding so god-damned important to them?

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    3. I think that most of the time, they do it with the best of intentions. But you know what they say about well-meaning intentions and the way to certain mythological eternal furnace...

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  6. What is sacred is entirely personal. Even if someone personal idea of sacred means involving a bunch of people. As for marriage I don't think it is sacred just on it's own. Marriage is at bare stripped down minimum a contract between two people. The sacred aspect of marriage is between the two people involved in it and sometimes that means, traveling to another country to be the one person's family, and participate in their customs, sometimes it's a few people in the woods, and sometimes it's just a quick trip to the court house to quietly make it official.

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    1. I am also tired of the sacred marriage debate, when it comes to the political. It seems to get forgotten that many cultures, many religions have marriages, some use different terms, some still call it marriage/wedding. It may look different but the outcome is the same two adults making a commitment to each other.

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    2. Ditto. I'm exhausted of people walking around pretending that they were the ones who invented marriage (under any name) or something like it. Worse, implying that it belongs to them or some nonsense.

      There is so much "finding for" and "defending of" that when they day comes most people forget what it means. And that is sad.

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  7. How sacred can it be if you've got someone else doing the planning? When I got married, my husband insisted that a preacher be the one to marry us. His first marriage was in front of a Justice and he said this time he was doing it "right." As I wasn't a self-id'd pagan I didn't fight it. It was important to him so I gave him that. But we didn't get married in a church. We got married in a delicious old Victorian house. I didn't have a bunch of people at my wedding either. I don't believe anything is sacred unless someone believes it is.
    All that said, in the end it is your ceremony. If someone really wants you to have the type of ceremony they'd prefer, perhaps you should suggest that they pay for it? Besides, why put yourself through all that stress? To be honest, other than picking out my cake, my wedding dress and insisting on the location, I turned most of the planning over to my mom. She was paying for it and like I told her, "The important part is that we end up married. I don't care how it happens. This is one day out of my life. It's the marriage I'd like to focus on." We picked out our own vows and the stuff that was important to each of us was present that day. But ultimately the wedding was a public declaration of something we'd already agreed to do.
    Do what you want and what will make the two of you happy and forget everyone else. After all, once the party is over, they aren't the ones who have to actually live the marriage.

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    1. Marriage is something that happens between two people. Okay, in our case, three (for the Little Princess will always be part of it). And you know what? All she cares about is the dress (she wants to wear the same thing: a bathing suit was her first choice, with a sparkly wrap lol. I'm all for it. I mean, how long until she starts to believe that wedding the same thing as me is totally uncool?

      And in our case it is not about the money. We don't care if someone comes and pay for a wedding in the moon, they won't prescribe the we'll do it. This is ours, and we'll do it our way.

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    2. Hahaha...sorry Steph ...not bitching or anything, but the thought of Magaly's mum planning her wedding made me spit my tea out :D

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    3. You should have seen my Piano Man's face when I told him, Gina. I thought his eyeballs were going to follow his jaw to the floor, LOL

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  8. Oh, I'm with you -- the Sacred is definitely personal. If a whole lot of people's personal conceptions of the Sacred happen to coincide, then there can be a communal Sacred as well. But it should never be allowed to trump a personal conception of the Sacred that dissents from it.

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    1. And that, my Wicked lovely Debra, is why I adore you. Because our individual definition of Sacred comes together into a communal end ;-D

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  9. It's all individual. What is sacred to one may not be to another. Follow your heart. :)

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    1. Indeed. Just like Debra said, "If a whole lot of people's personal conceptions of the Sacred happen to coincide, then there can be a communal Sacred as well." But in the end it's an individual decision that says it is so.

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  10. It's your day (all three of you). Do it your way. No one else can tell you what is sacred/important/meaningful to you. Make it meaningful and beautiful for you! Everyone else can go get bent! They can enjoy your day, your way, or not. They are just filler.

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    1. So much truth... If others, who say they love us, cannot give us the gift of celebrating our love they we choose, then they should probably reevaluate their definition of love.

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  11. For me, 'marriage' is only sacred in the context of religion. If a person wishes their union to be recognized by certain deities, & the attendant religious community, than church-wedding it is (or, at the least, officiated by a pastor of some sort). I find that handfasting falls into this category. This does not mean it isn't a wedding if 50 thousand isn't spent on it. *That* is bs perpetuated by businesses. Since this sort of wedding is a personal decision, it does not invalidate, or make any less 'real', marriages performed at a courthouse or in the park by a Justice of the Peace. Because handfastings are not always recognized as legal marriage ceremonies, than sometimes both ceremonies are held. Wedding Planner is having difficulty separating 'sacred' from 'supporting local businesses & driving oneself into bankruptcy as a wedding gift to themselves'. Then again, I'm cranky...hate this weather...hate it...too hot...too humid. To get anything civil out of me, one will have to wait until after the first hard frost. Probably a good thing I wasn't speaking to W.P. in person ;)

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    1. I think marriage/promise/wedding/handfasting can be sacred to an individual/couple regardless of how much it's spent. If someone needs to spend a few hundred thousands (and they can afford it) to celebrate the sacredness of their love, no one has the right to say that it is just a commercial thing. It is what they wanted, right? In the same way, if two people decide to walk to the courthouse, make thing legal and then share a cup of juice in the park, that's sacred, too. (Wow, that's a lot of commas, and I won't edit).

      Anyway, I'm just annoyed by people/groups who believe that just because they believe in something everyone else must do the same thing. How ridiculously egotistic can group-think really get? Yep, a bit oxymoronic, isn't it? Where is that first frost!

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  12. I don't know what sacred is. I just know that I feel it in some places. Can even sense it in certain photos of wells that are dedicated to the Virgin but go back farther than Christianity.

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    1. I think you described sacred in what you've shared. That feeling you get when you see those particular photos of the Virgin Mary is yours. You might even share them with others, but it might not mean the same thing. I feel that sense of sacredness when I see or touch a headscarf that used to belong to my grandma. It has power for me, just like the sun shining bright through hard rain...

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  13. When Sweet Man and I dedicated ourselves to each other. . . we chose to do so sans family, friends, we only had a judge and two witnesses (a secretary and a baliff) in a courthouse. It was our intention, our expectation that was sacred and we took that to our hearts forever. Hell we had our reception at Taco Bell and SM bought for everyone who was in line at the time.
    Unconventional???? Ya think????? And here we are 42 years later and he and I revisit that feeling, that sacredness of our union daily.
    We got so much shit over not inviting anyone. We were disowned for years from our families. And did it stop or deter our love and respect for each other? no. Did the family members ever forgive us???? I don't know, I never asked. I know it probably sounds selfish but we are the only ones that mattered and that is still the case.
    Blessings on YOUR plans whatever they may be. You'll look back and those moments will be just yours and Bill's and be shared with Princess only in a way that you will understand and cherish.......trust me.
    Oma Linda, still a fiesty olde broad

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    1. Your awesome self has the right to be as feisty as she wants around these parts. In fact, I encourage it.

      I just grinned, imagining the faces of the people standing in line, when SM said, "It's on me. We just got married!"

      Marines do know how to do it ;-D

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  14. It seems like you have a lot of friends who like to try to "guide" you in which are the "correct" choices to make. lol. "You can't be eccentric about this..." ??? Really? Cuz, um, last time I checked a marriage/handfasting has to do with the two people (or 3 in your case) pledging themselves to one another. Their feelings are what is sacred. The rest is just symbolic of those feelings. Rings: symbolic. Unity candle/sand/water etc: symbolic. Walking the aisle: symbolic. The symbols themselves are not sacred. It's the concepts represented by those symbols that are sacred. Love, Union, Respect, Fidelity. I guess there are some people who don't feel like it's "enough" for it to be sacred to two/three people. It doesn't count if it didn't cost a crap-ton of money, get witnessed by dozens of half-strangers, and undergo blessing by an official ordained priest/priestess/etc. If that's what sacred is to them, then fine, but not everyone needs to feel that way. I say you can be as eccentric as you want. That day belongs to you, your Piano Man, and The Little Princess and no one else.

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    1. I see now that you didn't say "friend"...just someone. Sorry about that...There are still a lot of people featured in your posts who seem to want to guide you. :-)

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    2. Speaking of symbols, the same individual asked me if I didn't fear people thinking that I wasn't in committed relationship due to the fact that I have a bracelet instead of a ring...

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    3. SMH...I feel sorry for them and how small their world is.

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    4. I'm right with you. It must be horrible to exist in such a place...

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  15. I look all this so simply, what is sacred is the love between you and your Piano man, everything else is like icing on a cake, and that really is up to you what kind of cake and icing you want.....it can be huge, and busy or it can simply be simple either way its your choosing and your day, and at the end of the day you and your Piano man are the ones that need to be happy with the actual events of the day for everyone else they should just be happy that you have found happiness and love together....everything else really in my eyes becomes about ego, its not their day its yours.....

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    1. Indeed, my friend. And those who care about us, should understand or try to. If not, well, there isn't much we can do, is it?

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  16. I dunno, I suppose that a wedding ceremony is much like a funeral, it's more for the benefit of the attendants than the subjects of the ceremony, so it might be worthwhile to think about those who would most wish to attend.

    Oh well, people are strange. That's why I'm a hermit I guess.

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    1. I will disagree just a bit. Funerals are, indeed for the living. But two people getting married are (most times at least ;-) alive. So it should be about them. If their happiness includes the cake, dead flowers, and enough white to blind a multitude, then by all means. But in the end, the union is for whoever the ones getting married choose that it will be for.

      So I guess it will be for whoever they want.

      I agree in the strange bit. I, too, have a cave ;-D

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  17. Your marriage is all about you and your piano man ;o) Nobody else! Do what is true to you ;o) I have always wanted to be married in the forest. Autumn, or the beginning of winter. I want the beauty of nature to surround me. That is sacred to me ;o)

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    1. I'm predicting trees and lots of frolicking for our handfasting... ;-D

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  18. Looks like u touched a nerve here...wow did I have to scroll far to find the comment box! lol... Everyone has an opinion to what u have addressed... and therefore no one has the right to judge or push their opinions on anyone... voice them yes, but respect the choice that the other has chosen... After all the decision one makes is one that one has to live with...Seems the older I get, my mind has changed... I've told my girls, its not necessary to have that piece of paper.. to me commitment, loyalty and honor can be achieved w/out it... look at the divorces!.. seems as tho those who were married either made the wrong choice or had rose colored glasses on...

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    1. I think everybody should look into the whole live and let live bit a little more closely, you know? Some individuals value that piece of paper; it's sacred to them. I've been a witness many times, and I've seen that sweet look in their eyes and celebrated it with them.

      My Piano Man and I are not into huge ceremonies--unless they include novels and comic books lol. Hm, maybe we can be married at Comic Con! Just kidding... maybe...

      Seriously though, it should be a personal choice. And those who love us should respect, and try to support our wishes, methinks...

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  19. I think anything is sacred if you make it so. If this was a close friend I'd just politely thank them and move on. If it's not a close friend, I agree its a bit stalker-ish. She probably has been one of those girls that have been planning her wedding since she was old enough to learn what a wedding is but hasn't found her guy yet so she is probably getting nervous that she won't find him and totally overcompensating by "helping" you. (wow that was a long sentence, sorry I'm too tired to edit.)

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    1. I think u are right, but then again, maybe the fact Mags isn't having a wedding planner the gal feels as if its a criticism on her for having one? She may feel that she's done something wrong or that she thought her way was the best... just guessing here.

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    2. Salem Witch Child - I think she means well. But in all her good heartiness, she forgot to consider the fact that my Piano Man and I aren't exactly like other people she knows. I think she wants to do unto us what she wishes for herself, and believes that's the best thing. And, yes, she's wrong.

      Kalei's Best Friend - I have a feeling you are right in this one. The individual in question had a HUGE wedding. I remember telling her that I was very glad to be away from home on military assignment because I would have probably had a stroke just looking at the flower massacre.

      That's another thing, as soon as she found out about the engagement, she offered to provide the flowers. She KNOWS I can't stand cut flowers other than in funerals, they make me sad--the thought of all those severed vegetable corpses, you know? I know not everyone feels the way I do, so I make no comment when I go to someone's wedding or house and see them. I usually touch the blooms and thank them for the sacrifice or something. But we aren't all the same... and some of us don't get that...

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  20. What's sacred to one person, isn't going to be sacred to another person. Or might not be. No one gets to decide that something is sacred for someone else. Weddings are usually giant displays of the misuse of money. The reason they are is because of people who like to tell others what other people expect of them. It doesn't matter what someone's family thinks of the day, it's not about the family, it's about the two people exchanging the vows. If we'd get back to the basics in life, maybe weddings wouldn't actually bankrupt people and make others consider suicide. And I disagree with the comment about Weddings and Funerals being for the attendants. Not so! Weddings are for the two people exchanging vows. If they are about the attendants at all then you've lost meaning, in my opinion. However, Funerals are totally for the living attendants. When I'm dead, I won't be able to care about what happens at my Funeral.

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    1. "Weddings are usually giant displays of the misuse of money." I think this is so very true for most of the population, Renee. Not so long ago, I shared a post about a friend who wanted to spend thousands of dollars in a wedding while she had no house, needed a car, and the money to be used would have to be borrowed... I understand that many can afford this, and I would never say to them that it is wrong to it (hey, it's their hard-earned money, right?), but in too many cases people poison their tummy in order to show a nice waistline and that is sad.

      I'm one 100% with you, in who the celebration should be for and why.

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  21. Sacredness is absolutely personal. It *can* be shared, but it is shared at the discretion of those involved, only. You can't force someone to share what they they consider to be sacred, with people they don't want to share it with. That's like... sacredness rape. For lack of a better word.

    Archer and I are pretty clear on our desires to not get married (legally) at all. Not saying other people shouldn't, we just don't want to. Handfasting is another matter, obviously, and we still might do that someday. We'll see. Anyway, you should see some of the looks we get (or hear some of the shit that comes out of people's mouths) when either of us says we're not getting married. One of my more conservative girlfriends looked at Archer like he had slapped her when he responded to her question ("so when are you two getting married") with, "I would never reduce Bones to the status of a mere wife." Of course, he said it that way for effect. Because he's like that. As she sputtered, he continued, "I wake up every single day and decide to stay with her because I want to, not because I have to or it's expensive not to. Why would I take that from her?" It got his point across. She hasn't asked (him) again, lol.

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  22. I would have paid to see the look on that woman's face. For research, of course *cough, cough*

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  23. Personal commitment, not a display to 'prove' how much in love you are by how much you spend, personal commitment, definitely, not to prove to all how many friends you have by who you invite to witness, personal commitment yep, not a competition to show your love is greater because it's bigger, flashier, pricier, filled with all the superficial trimmings you can buy... Maybe people just want to be a part of a love burning brightly, to warm themselves and to celebrate a great occasion by shouting to all, but I don't get it, I think I understand it is done with the best of intentions, to interfer... But no Magaly, you and your beautiful pianoman will do it perfectly, your own personally unique and perfect way :)
    I have just been going through a few blogs this morning and realise all my comments I have written here, and on Stacy's, Memphis, Oma's etcs blogs on my IPod have not posted :( Ahh, guess what I will be doing this weekend, revisiting and leaving little comments x 2... Not sure if anyone else has had this problem with an IPod? Going to look it up on my nerd sites next! Talk soon x

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    1. I like the idea of the shouting and perhaps sharing lots of food, but not for a wedding you know? I just really dislike the idea of being too tired to celebrate my wedding night ;-D

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  24. PS I think I will post a photo of my wedding shoes which after 20 years I still wear constantly...

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  25. Sacred is a place in my heart that is by invitation only.

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    1. Same here. I don't care how big it is, it will still be touched only by a few special souls ;-)

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  26. Personal all the way. And if you want wedding or engagement photos I think I could make the trip to you (I have my own car now).

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    1. I will definitely keep that in mind!

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