“a [P]agan church where Christianity [is] very much in the centre”


First, let me say that I understand that people are free to do and say whatever they want as long as they don’t harm others. It’s a big world; we should live in it as ourselves.

Second, this is going to be a very short post… I don’t write much when I’m exasperated beyond belief—no, that’s not a typo, I’m feeling rather suspicious.

Third, and last, am I alone in feeling that the idea of “a [P]agan church where Christianity [is] very much in the centre” is a tad oxymoronic? Fine, preach if you must, but when your mission oozes out of the belief that “[n]owadays people, they want to feel something; they want to have some sense of experience,” as if anything other than your Christianity implies spiritual numbness, well, I can’t help wishing that you would leave your arrogance and your “ground breaking” bullshit somewhere where they don’t make me gag.

I read the article “In the News” section of The Secret Life of an American Witch’s Sunday Stew.
My dearest Kallan always keeps me up to date in the world’s latest bit of Pagan-related madness.

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35 comments:

  1. Sounds like a desperate attempt by the Church of England to convert people. An attempt that is doomed to failure.

    This is an age where we are shedding old ways that no longer work for us. People are waking up. I'm sure their little "church" will just become a failed blip on the radar.

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    1. You know, this wouldn't be as insulting if this group would speak of sharing knowledge, experiences and spiritual communion. No, they have to be totally ridiculous and patronizing and try "to formulate an exploration of the Christian faith that would be at home in their culture."

      What about opening their minds a little and compromise to explore general spirituality together? The worse part is that I'm sure that deep in their thick egocentric skull they believe that they're been nice to the poor little Pagans who don't know better *sigh*

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  2. "oxymoronic", with the emphasis being on "moronic"

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  3. I read this too an just laughed. My uncle pastors at a christian church that spend time interpreting dreams, and chanting their worship songs, and you know what the rest of my christian family says "they aren't really christian" - so in short i think this might backfire. Every time I saw christians getting "hip" to what is popular, it always backfires. Lets face it, you can have a christian festival with camping, outdoor services, etc, but without acknowledging Bast or Dionysus or other deity of revelry, these pagan-like christians are only serving hollow shells of why people participate in paganism.

    Does the church really think that Pagans will flock back after the millennia of persecution, temple destructions/christianization, demonization, witch hunts, the fucking Malleus Malificarum, and countless other atrocities committed against non-christians, in the name of god. Even as we speak, there are christians in colonized nations who continue to see witchcraft as a real threat, to the pint of burning the accused. This is becuase of the fierce anti-pagan, anti-witch sentiments christians harbor. The church CANNOT expect that people like me would just stop "backsliding" because they have a drum circle ata festival singing to Jesus. Sorry folks, not gonna happen.

    Not to mention the fundamental differences between most Pagan dogma, theology, and practice. The christian god is too small to accept "All act of love and pleasure are my rituals" Consensual sex, human rights, and environmental protection are all a major part of the Pagan movement, and I have yet to see christians en masse, or any church institution embrace these as tenants fo their faith. Until that happens, they have no chance. They missed the opportunity back in the 6th century when Justinian closed the last temple in Egypt. Hey Anglican Church, Get off my LAWN!!!

    I'll get off my soap box now....

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    1. I just don't understand why this group doesn't understand that we could play together (if they would ever stop pretending that they are better than anyone else). Nothing, but their believe that anything other than their Christianity is fake and doom to hell, keeps Pagan from them. Most Pagans are equal opportunity lovers. If you respect us (and can keep your beliefs in your heart) we'll welcome you in our backyards. Otherwise, listen to a lady I know, and "Get off my [freaking] LAWN!!!"

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  4. If you approach everything with your Christian goggles on, then you are NOT REALLY approaching (let alone embracing) ANYTHING (else). It is an affront to any original, nature or heathen belief to want "Christianity at the center of it".

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    1. Exactly. Paganism with "Christianity at the center of it" is not Paganism. It is just Christianity trying to creep in and conquer from within. Well, no! We are not our great-grandparents' great-grandparents, we know your so called inclusive ways, so back off. For when it comes to that kind of nonsense, most of us are as tolerant as Jesus in the temple bastardized by money, greed and control. Oh, and we, too, are into whips ;-D

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    2. And by "we" I mean "me."

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  5. Holy moly, the Anglican Church must be getting desperate these days, LOL! I can't possibly add anything to Bellatrix S's most excellent analysis.

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    1. "desperate," spiritually deaf, and mundanely dumb...

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  6. Would Jesus see pagans as his equal? Of course he would. Jesus sat down and ate with everyone, accepted everyone, didn't judge anyone. Does the Church of England see pagans as equal followers of the sacred divine? Hahahahaha! Don't waste any energy getting angry, Magaly, the kinds of Christians who see Jesus as the path that is right for them won't be at these Anglican churches. (It is just TOOO funny! - I read the link you posted.)

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    1. Your wisdom is always on point, Francie. I'm sure Jesus wouldn't care much for churches. He would probably walk around looking for people in need and making friends with whoever had a good heart, without asking them to change.

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  7. Can't imagine that there will be many takers for attendance. Hard to believe that those who find safety in attending Christian service would want to be outed by attending such inane services.

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    1. Maybe the church will hire belly dancers to carry the collection plates ;-D

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  8. Sorry it took so long to respond to this. Mercury Rx shadow hit my computer this morning. I finally got it fixed. Well said, Mags. The Church has a history of using whatever tactics it takes to lure Pagans into it and convert them. This is just a new one for the 21st century.

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    1. Mercury Rx is at it again, but that's the world--we can just spin with it.

      This group is all about assimilation, I hope no one is silly enough to fall for their nonsense.

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  9. I hadn't read that article until now and I didn't know whether to be infuriated by it or just to laugh. Does this mean that any pagans refusing to go to their new services will be burnt at the stake! Sounds to me like a last ditch attempt by a failing Church to grab recruits wherever they can.

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    1. I think the article calls for a bit of mad laughter. You know, I didn't even wonder about what they would use for strategy. Seriously, will they say that they are the only way or something? Will they man-up and admit that most of their rituals derive from Paganism? Will they try to play nice? Okay, the latter is a bit ridiculous. I just wonder...

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  10. But the point has always been and will always be the Almighty Dollar (pound)....money, currency, mulla, dinero, yen, marcs......Ya get it. People mean money. They don't give a rats ass about saving souls, they want to save their own jobs. I worked in a church as a staff member.....nothing is more important than getting folks butts in the seats and money in the offering plate. The End. Oma Linda

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    1. Oma luv, there is a song in Spanish, titles, 'Por la plata baila el mono.' I'm in total agreement--the monkey will dance for money, indeed. Or in this case, the priest-man will dance all kinds of deception to get a little silver. If they were into the business of saving souls, you'd think they would take time to really understand the souls they are aiming to bring to their church.

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  11. Oh my... what a can of worms.

    I had a tangle of thoughts from reading this. In no particular order:

    Is this pretty much the same as when the Catholic church co-opted the pagan holidays, in order to ease the forced conversion of said pagans? Obviously they can't really get away with the 'forced' part anymore, but it still seems like a similar theme to me.

    The arrogance, the condescension, the assholery of this whole thing... ugh.

    On the other hand, there already are "Christian Pagans" - who might go by a variety of labels, you get the gist, right? Basically pagans who worship Jesus and/or Yahway (yep, I'm spelling that wrong, I'm pretty sure).

    I just had this conversation with someone last night. As a pagan, this person couldn't stomach the idea of 'christian pagans,' because they thought the basic tenets of the two religions were incompatible. I disagree. If we could ignore the construct of a church and look only at the people (not that we necessarily should, but if we *could*), what would we see? Take away the "religious" - look instead at the spirituality that is at the core of what Jesus is supposed to have stood for - and we see a whole lot of love. We tend to associate Christians with all their various rules, all the trappings of their religion, but their spirituality isn't that different, under all the rest of that crap.

    So yeah.

    Whew, what an interesting topic.

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    1. The idea of a world where society, as a whole, "could ignore the construct of a church and look only at the people" makes me think all kinds of sweet dreams. But we both know how likely that would be...

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    2. Yeah, I know. I'm on a campaign to at least get the people around me to be a bit more open minded. Less judginess would be way better. Or at least the person I had that conversation with yesterday.

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    3. We could all use a nice dose of open mindedness... indeed, we could.

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  12. why not let simply us be what who we are? oh my, I would never think to create a Pagan Church??? Well, intelligent people already created such kind of blend of beliefs for themselves... I mean really? They want to turn everyone Christian?And this is very silly, because I can't even marry my husband according to Orthodox rituals, because they say that he has to be Christian too... Thank goodness, he is allowed to enter churches...

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    1. The world would be a much better place if we were left to be just who we are when it comes to spiritual practice or the decision to not practice any. Maybe one day. Maybe...

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    2. Yes, I found Christianity a very strict and limited religion, non-acceptance is there too, and even I was the same way before I came to India.But being in multi-religious marriage makes you much more wise and more tolerant and understanding. let's mix!

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    3. The more we learn about each other, the more we notice that we aren't as different as society makes us believe. So yeah, "let's mix!"

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  13. I have went through your comments Magaly and I think everyone has expressed themselves wonderfully ;o) I am in agreement with everyone ;o) Let us be ;o) Big Hugs ;o)

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  14. Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the Crusades start with Christians creating/developing/changing their holidays to "incorporate" the Pagan beliefs, to make converting the "Heathens" easier????

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    1. Certain groups are expert at the dangerous art of forgetting history, or at least reshaping it so that it will work for them and for what they believe in.

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